Universal Truths: Jewish Roots, Week Three: Hell

[dorchadas]

• Dov Weiss, "scholar of ancient Judaism" wrote Pious Irreverence


• Before hell, the afterlife. In Tanakh, mostly no afterworldly punishment or reward. Everyone goes to Sheol underground and sleep


• Only Daniel has reward and punishment, but in bodily resurrection, not an otherworld. Immortality of the soul shows up later


• Tanakh has no hell. First mention in Book of Enoch, written third century BCE. Later mentioned in rabbinic literature (Mishnah, Talmud, etc)


• "Why did you choose hell?" "Why did Dante, why did Milton? It's a thriller, you know"


• גיהנום Gehennom from Greek Gehenna. Image of flames from Jeremiah


• After chevruta, don't know who goes to Gehennom, how long they stay there, or whether it even exists.


• R. Akiva, wicked twelve months there. That's why Kaddish is twelve months. R. Yochanan b. Nuri, seven weeks of the Omer. Neither of them say Gehennom is eternal


• Tosefta does say Gehennom is eternal, but might be rejected by Mishnah authors


• Shammai and Hillel have three groups: one for eternal life, one for shame and everlasting contempt, and one mixed. Maybe not referring to Gehennom at all?


• What is "resurrection"? Brought back either in original body, or new body made. On Earth. Is the resurrection the reward, or something that happens just before the reward?


• Shammai: Gehenna is a refining fire. People go there and have their flaws burned away like gold in the forge, and then come out purified.


• Hillel: There is mercy, no one goes to Gehenna. The mixed also receive their reward immediately


• Weiss thinks early rabbis were trying to do away with Gehennom, but influence from Christianity caused it to be strengthened again


• "Shame and everlasting contempt" worse than Gehennom? Public shaming is the worst punishment of all


• Heresy only begins in Judaism after Christianity. Was it a useful concept for the rabbis trying to establish a post-Temple Judaism? Heretic = opposing the rabbis? Separation from the community is the worst possible sin


• Reish Lakish, "There is no Gehennom". Another early rabbi reducing power of hell!


• Jerusalem Talmud, back to mostly righteous deeds and mostly wicked deeds. Not about character anymore. Like Anubis with the feather, but Jewish. If 50/50, G-d takes away a bad deed or gives one of his own good deeds!


• Over time, rabbis increase severity and power of Gehennom


• Maimonides says Gehennom is a metaphor! Some souls have eternal life others do not


• "What relevance does this have to your life?" "Oh, I’m a scholar, I don't do that part."


• "It's no big shocker to us that Judaism has texts where we read it and say, 'Huh, that's weird.' "


• Comfort in suffering of wicked? "Maybe I connect with it more than I could three-and-a-half years ago." Fairness


• Gehennom and Book of Life from Yom Kippur?


• Kaddish helps the soul ascend


• Old age, sufferings of dementia etc, like a period of Gehennom


• "Is hell even useful as a concept for the Christians? Is the joke on them? If it's going to make the good people feel bad and the bad people don't care..."


• How much does the motivation of a good deed matter?

Comments

[symbioid]

Interesting that you post this the same time I'm thinking about the concept of "Annihilationism" (and "Eternal Soul"). Not sure if you saw it but I was curious your thoughts from a Jewish perspective.

Yay synchronicities!

Good morning reading :) I'm actually trying to learn about the concepts of Neffesh, Abaddon/Apollyi/Sheol/Hades (obvs Hades/Apollyi = Greek).

But how that influence between Greek/Jewish influence The concept of an immortal soul that burns forever.

Sadly, I'm doing this with a goal of finding justification with Christian thought of an immortal soul. I don't think it exists and it's a perversion of some sort (i saw somewhere say it was a Greek influence).

[dorchadas]

As far as I know, it is a Greek influence. The earliest afterlife concepts involved death and then sleeping in Sheol, with a future bodily resurrection once the messiah became a concept (by the time of the Book of Daniel)--though even then, there was some debate over whether people would rise in their original bodies, or whether G-d would give them new bodies.

Though even later, there's no idea that the soul is automatically immortal. We read one text about how the souls of the wicked are scourged and flayed for twelve months, and then destroyed.

[symbioid]

Thanks :) Yeah I read more of your post of course since it's an overview and I'm not quite sure the context wasn't sure of everything. I'm sure I'll be touching on a lot of this as I dig in.

One of my favorite conceptions is that God is pure light and "his" light will obliterate anything that is not good. So the souls of the damned (however that's interpreted) will burn away while the redeemd survive.

I guess that goes into the purification/purgatorio arc of things only the furnace is Gods own light of goodness, not an external place "out there".

[dorchadas]

There's a quote about how the wicked will be burned by fire from within, and it's not entirely clear if it's due to G-d or if it's somehow a natural process (so to speak). If you want more sources, I can provide them from the source sheet when I get home!

[symbioid]

"Gehennom and Book of Life from Yom Kippur?"

IDK the Book of Life in terms of Yom Kippur (since I'm at work can't read too much rn about it) but...

This got me thinking about the "Tree of Life" in the Garden and the angels guarding it with their swords of fire.

One thing I've interpreted that as is a metaphor for the march of time - you can never go back. Literally. In the sense of a young, naive, innocent child... Gaining knowledge (of sex/nudity/nakedness) e.g. puberty, and never being able to get back to that innocent age, thus stands the guardian of the forward flow of time.

But then, at least in the xian cosmology, the resurrection of a body, purified to be in Paradise again...

What if the purgatory is the swords guarding paradise. The "new world" promised in Revelation would be a return to the old/original - the eternal return to the roots where we are innocent and free of sin once again.

Passing through the fire to purge us so we are holy and sanctified to once again enter "The Temple of Eden" as it were?

IDK I'm probably sounding like some burnt out hippie. But I like toying with that idea...

[angelofthenorth]

Gehenna was the name of a rubbish dump that was always burning outside of 2nd Temple Jerusalem, according to some scholars. When Jesus talked about things like this, he was referring to the literal place, rather than a concept.

[dorchadas]

Jesus may have been referring to the physical place (and that's definitely where the name originally came from), but it was already a spiritual concept in the time of R. Hillel and R. Shammai (1st century BCE), at least according to the Mishna (compiled 2nd century CE):

"The House of Shammai says, 'There are three groups, one for eternal life, one for shame and everlasting contempt (Dan 12:2)—these are those who are completely evil.
An intermediate group go down to Gehinnom and scream and come up again and are healed, as it is said: “I will bring the third part through fire and will refine them as silver is refined and will test them as gold is tested, and they shall call on my name and I will be their God” (Zech 13:9). And concerning them did Hannah say, “The Lord kills and brings to life, brings down to Sheol and brings up” (1 Sam 2:6).

And the House of Hillel says: “Great in mercy” (Exod 34:6)—He inclines the decision toward mercy, and concerning them David said: “I am happy that the Lord has heard the sound of my prayer” (Ps 116:1), and concerning them is said the entire passage."
-Tosephta Sanhedrin 13.3